Sonicrealms Racing

General => Sim Racing => Topic started by: Monty on November 16, 2011, 10:50:36 PM UTC



Title: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Monty on November 16, 2011, 10:50:36 PM UTC
Ok guys... whilst my return to Sim Racing (LFS in particular) has been an enjoyable one....... I can't help but feel that LFS is dead.... I guess 3 years of waiting for S3 has made everyone leave :/    Whilst it's still realistic and a Sim I enjoy to play, I get bored of it so easily!  The same old cars.... same old quiet servers and that horrible deathly silence feel I get when looking at the list of empty servers in the lobby!  Oo

So until LFS brings out an update (the year 3000?), I am looking at other Sims to have a shot at.... NetKar pro is another fun game, but is also lacking good online competition.

rFactor?.... eh com ci com ca   (Jersey-French for So-so  :P ), again it is outdated technology which will only last so long before rFactor 2 takes over!



So.... you know what I'm bored of now!   So I ask you folks........ what Sims are out there?    Is iRacing all it is cracked up to be?  Is it good value for money?

Any other racing Sims that SR is involved with?   I am still loyal to the SR tag and if there are any other Race Sims that are proving more popular than LFS then I'd be more than happy to give it a shot! :)


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Pete on November 17, 2011, 09:36:29 AM UTC
A lot of guys here are on iRacing now Monty, It wasn't my cuppa tea when i tried but i'm sure with the masses now on there it must be  something good about it...... :)

Just hope you have deep pockets :lol:


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Monty on November 17, 2011, 10:05:58 AM UTC
..... So I take it that it isn't cheap?  :P

What is it?  A monthly payment scheme?


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Pete on November 17, 2011, 11:36:10 AM UTC
Best speak to Maybe Jason L, Turkey, Slawter, teq. umm some others that regularly race there to see what deals they have. :)


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Monty on November 17, 2011, 12:28:56 PM UTC
I was hoping one of them would respond to this post :P


I just want to get some feedback from the other SR members to see what they think of it! :)


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Pete on November 17, 2011, 01:21:56 PM UTC
I'd say over 90% of them love it :P


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Monty on November 17, 2011, 01:39:12 PM UTC
I'm tempted to join the expensive side then  :j


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Neil on November 17, 2011, 06:36:22 PM UTC
I thought it was a nice product when I took out a trial subs, but the money made it a non-starter for me to continue.
If you could advance without having to pay SO much to buy new cars/tracks, then the annual subscription alone just might have been tolerable. But... you can't, so that's that.
Like Pete says, if you are OK with paying lots, you might get on really well with it. I think a year's worth of usage (including a sensible amount of content) will set you back way over £100...


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: JasonL220 on November 17, 2011, 06:50:00 PM UTC
It probably worth you taking a look at this (http://www.iracing.com/2-free/) ( dont forget to give me a referral jasonl220@gmail.com  ;) ) , and race in the rookie series for at least a few weeks to get used to the system. If you like it then invest wisely in a new car and tracks for the next season at a the next license level, no point buying what you won't need/use.


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Monty on November 17, 2011, 07:20:31 PM UTC
Woah woah woah!   You buy content ontop of the monthly subscription fee???

Didn't realise that!  Oo

Thanks for that link though Jason, I will look into that - and don't worry, you will get credit :P

How popular is it?  Any public severs or is it just private servers, leagues etc.....?


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Neil on November 17, 2011, 09:32:13 PM UTC
Well, the regular iRacers will be most up-to-date on this, but during my trial it seemed to me that the entry-level leagues were reasonably busy (the races aren't continuous like LFS - you have to wait tens of minutes or even hours between races) and the high-level leagues looked a bit empty...


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Teq on November 18, 2011, 02:12:19 PM UTC
I can say , iRacing is the bomb....At first I wasn't happy either but that's because I was so used to LFS, but now I really accel (spelling?) in the Star Mazda, which is quite similar to to LFS, I even won my division last week on a track :D

Although yeah it cost a bit of money , but the game is really getting update and improved all the time and once you got the feeling and the whole understandig of iRacing you will laugh at LFS. Well I am, I even removed that shitty game from my computer and got fully in iRacing and nothing else.

The championships are so proffesional,  I never seen this in any other sim racing game yet.

So it depends on you if you want to spend the money on it or not. Yes it's a monthly subscription and yes you have to buy the tracks and cars, but that's only once and gets updated all the time.

If you buy e.g. 3 items you will get a large discount. So if you are going to participate for a certain champtionship then you can buy all those tracks and of course the car you want.

Skip Barber is a good leanring curve, I hated it but when I had that car I did about 3 races and I was able to switch to Star Mazda, when I arrived to that....seriously my eyes were opened, car feels so good, races are sooo exciting. If you race for example between 6 and 10 o clock in the evening the slots are just stuffed with people and you will have a great expierence.

If people try to knock you off track and such , don't worry that will not happen often. Cause it all affects your rating and future in Iracing, most of em about 90/95% are clean racers.

Like Jason said, give it a 2 month free trial shot and then try to evaluate.

And remember, it's TOTALLY different then LFS, what I mean with that is, you will have to approach the game like you have never driven before , cause it's new, new kind of phsycics, it's impossible to compare , so if you can let that go ( I had a hard time going that cause I tryed to compare it with LFS in the beginning and I was so frustrated that I didnt had the speed yet) but after I let that all go things are falling into place.

Good luck and enjoy!

Look me up on  : Yuri Gamelkoorn / teqnl

Cheers!


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Teq on November 18, 2011, 02:15:24 PM UTC
Oh and remember you can't just start a race like Neil describes but there is an option to join a hosted race so you CAN race whenever you want but it will not count on your rating i think.

for Star Mazda every 2 hours is a race and every hour a qualify in the meanwhile you can practice. So yeah it's not just jump in and race, but you are a quite serious racer as I remember so this shouldn't be an obstacle I think.

If you need sets just ask me , Jason or one of the other guys , Slawter he has a lot of expierence on iRacing and can maybe even better explain how the game is.


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Monty on November 18, 2011, 05:13:43 PM UTC
Ahhhhh so once you purchase a car/track, that is it on your account for good?   You don't need to re-purchase it after 12 months etc?


Is there a ladder you must climb?  i.e. not able to do races/enter servers until you have done x amount of races etc.?

Anyone who remembers how pissy I got on LFS servers with the noobs should know I take it too seriously so this sounds up my street  :P


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: JasonL220 on November 18, 2011, 07:22:54 PM UTC
Yes, you buy the car/track that will be available that account for ever, even if you take timeout and don't resubscribe for a while.

There is a ladder system ( Rookie -> D -> C -> B -> A -> Pro -> DWC ( Drivers World Champship ) ), you start as a rookie license and can only participate in the rookie series. But if you race safe you will be promoted to D ( allowing access to the D license series, etc.

Here is a couple of posts on the iRacing forum covering safety rating ( SR ) and license promotion/demotion. This should cover most thing, hope it helps.



License promotion summary (http://www.answers-script.com/iracing/article.php?id=96)




Quote
Please don't spam this thread with your discussions about the SR system and how you personally like it. Do that in your own thread please.


There has been a lot of confusion, misunderstanding and in most cases simply a lack of knowledge about the SR system. I collected answers to questions that came up in the last three to four months, put them together and sorted them from basic to more advanced/complicated.

Here's the quick and dirty run down of what you probably should know about the SR system:

- To advance to a higher license, you will have to improve your Safety Rating. The Safety Rating is the only consideration for the license levels. When you have reached a higher license you can lose it again and get demoted if your Safety Rating sinks too much.
- Safety Rating is a measure of safety in sessions (Qualifying, Warmup, Race [official and unofficial] and Time Trials). It only takes into account the amount of incident you have for the the amount of corners you have driven through. For the Safety Rating, your qualifying or finishing position do not matter at all. When you drive safely, don't have any incidents and finish last you will be better off than having incidents and finishing first. At least as far as your Safety Rating is concerned.
- You have two SR ratings, one for Ovals and one for Road. The category a race falls into is determined by the class of the series ONLY. When the Star Mazda Series visits an Oval (in 2011-1 that would be Richmond Night for example) it still counts towards your Road SR. You can (and will) advance your road and oval licenses seperately. To achieve Oval C you don't need to achieve Road C at the same time. You could be a Pro in Oval but a Rookie in Road.
- Road and Oval SR are no longer linked. They were before the 2/2/2010 build but are no longer. You run oval, it stays in oval. You run road, it stays in road. (Thanks Stephen!)
- There are four levels of incidents: 0x (light contact with the wall OR light contact with another car), 1x (off track), 2x (hard contact with wall OR lost control) and 4x (hard/critical contact with another car).
- The relevant criterion for a 1x off track is the geometric center of the car. You get the 1x if it moves over an illegal track material. Usually anything within the white lines and (at least) the first line of curbing is legal. What is considered legal and illegal, especially several lines of curbing in the same spot, can differ between tracks so make sure to test which lines are considered ok in practice.
- You can "inherit" incident points. If you hit another car for a 0x and the other drivers goes off track (collecting a 2x) you will inherit his 2x and get 2x instead of the 0x. As long as the "0x Incident" message at the top of your screen is showing you can inherit points. That's for approximately four seconds.
- The Safety Rating is not a tool to penalize you. It is a tool to quantify (make measurable) the "safeness" of a driver. It counts incident points, nothing more. It does not assess blame. It only allows to see which driver has accrued which level of incident points. In the license system, the higher your SR, the higher the class and series you will be allowed to drive in.
- While your Safety Rating is calculated from the average of how many corners you go per incident (Corners per Incident, CPI), it is automatically translated into an easier-to-grasp number that is being displayed to you. This will be a number between 1.00 and 4.99.
- When you cross any x.00 SR-level, you will get an additional 0.40 boost. If you were 2.99 before a race and gained 0.02 by racing, it would put you at 3.01 after the race. However since you crossed the x.00 threshold, your new SR will be 3.41. This also works the other way around, when you go from 3.01 to 2.99, the 0.40 you were lent when going up will be detracted again and you will end up at 2.59.
- When you move up a license level, your SR Rating will generally drop by 1.00. If you were C-4.50 before being promoted to B, you will then be B-3.50.
- A higher license level will not hurt you. Any car that you want to drive requires just a minimum license. If you want to drive a D-class car like the Skippy, having an A-class license doesn't hinder you. Promoting to a license higher than the one you need can help you build up a buffer against getting demoted below the level you need to run your desired series however.
- You can not get demoted back to Rookie. D-Class is the lowest license level available once you exit the Rookie ranks.
- It's easier to gain SR in longer races. More corners means better CPI if you keep the number of incidents the same.
- Once you reach 4.99 in any license class, your SR will seemingly not advance anymore. Your CPI however still does. Should you advance a license level or have a few bad races you will still benefit from the invisible "buffer" above 4.99 you have accrued.
- When you reach an SR rating of 4.00 or over, you will be immediately promoted to the next higher level if you have met the Minimum Participation Requirements (4 races or 4 time trials in a car of at least the license level of your current license). This is called FastTrack.
- FastTrack also works the other way around. If your reach an SR rating of below 1.00, you will be immediately demoted to a lower license level.
- To race in a certain series you need to meet the minimum license requirement.
- If you have a SR of between 3.00 and 4.00 and met the MPR, you will be promoted at the end of a season. If you have an SR of below 2.00, you will be demoted at the end of a season. This is the regular promotion mechanism.
- The higher your license, the slower your SR progress will seem to be. The largest part of this is simply because you already have a high Corners per Incident average. The higher your average is, the harder it is to keep improving it. If you've written just D's in your exams, it'll be easier to improve by writing a C or better. When you've already been getting A's, it's a lot harder to improve on that. The translation of CPI into the SR value also flattens a bit the higher you move up (see the link to Mathieu's graphs at the bottom for details).
- This also means it's generally easier to lose SR at higher levels because your average is already relatively high. If you're still in Rookie, a race with with 6 incidents in 10 laps at Lime Rock will likely mean you'll improve your SR, because it means you achieved a higher CPI-average than you had before. If you're already in the A license level, 6 incidents in 10 laps at Lime Rock will mean you'll lose some SR, because it's worse than your prior average. You'll however still have a vastly higher SR than the aforementioned Rookie.
- Your CPI is calculated for a limited history of corners. The exact number of corners taken into consideration is not known to me, but the general assumption is that for a Pro license there are 2600 corners taken into consideration. For lower licenses the number is lower. This means that laps in which you had a lot of incidents will sooner or later drop completely out of your CPI calculation.
- If you finish with 0 incidents, you will always gain SR. This is because the mechanism of a "weighted moving average" is used to calculated your CPI value. Recent corners (with or without incidents) count more, those towards the end of your history from 10 or so races ago count less. So if you add only clean corners to the front of your history, every incident in your history will be pushed further towards the end and count less, which will make you gain SR even if you did not drop any incidents from your history.
- A very bad race with lots of incidents will be moderated through two mechanisms: One is the CPI history of a maximum of 2600 corners, so if you don't follow it up with races that are just as bad, your SR will correct itself soon enough. Two, the CPI is an average over an amount of corners. So your bad race will drop the average but will do so much less than if only the last three races were taken into account.
- You practically can't compare SR gains/losses between two drivers. You would need to know the exact CPI history of both drivers for instance. Without knowing the exact history, one driver will drop different corners from the SR calculation than the other.

- "Why is it harder to gain SR/easier to lose SR at higher license levels?" - The biggest part of this is that it's harder to maintain a high average than it is to maintain a low average. To maintain a CPI of 25, you only need a CPI of, well, 25. That's quite some incidents in a race you can accrue and still come out with a +/-0 to your SR at the end of a race. You also have a lot of room to improve (and thus a chance to improve by a bigger margin) at lower levels, while at the higher license levels you can not improve as much because you already need a low incident count just to keep your current CPI average.
- "I had a 0 inc race but my SR dropped" - There's two likely scenarios here: a) you had incidents in warmup. They count too and they matter for the end-of-race SR change but show in the warmup times table at the bottom of the results page, not the race results table. b) you had incidents in incomplete in-/out-laps. It has been observed that those at times will not show in the final results page. So be careful even after you have crossed the finish line!
- They're called "incidents" for a reason. It's not "accidents caused" but "incidents". I'm not a native speaker so you probably get the idea difference immediately but for me and everyone else: Going off track into the grass to avoid a pile up on the track is still an incident. This example also make clear how innocent the implications of an incident are. You can't tell if it was a "good" incident to avoid a bigger mess or a "bad" incident where you caused havoc by driving erratically into T1 and wiping out half the field. It's only an incident, nothing more at that point.
- When you run off track for what would normally be a 1x, it won't be an incident if you manage to reduce your speed to below 30mph/50kph before going off track. This can be especially handy when the track in front of you is blocked by spun/crashed cars. (Thanks Michael!)


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Monty on November 18, 2011, 08:07:43 PM UTC
Well the 3 months subscription seems fairly good value.... I will give it a shot then!   :j


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Monty on November 18, 2011, 08:17:13 PM UTC
Well I'm now subscribed!  This shall be interesting! :)


For skins and stuff like that.... same as LFS as in just put your skin into your game?   Or can you only use certain content?


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: JasonL220 on November 18, 2011, 08:38:31 PM UTC
you can put setups, skins etc, in my documents/iracing/..

use http://www.tradingpaints.com/ (http://www.tradingpaints.com/) to download other drivers skins


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Monty on November 18, 2011, 09:19:43 PM UTC
Cheers :)

I've got an even better question though..... how the bloody hell do I get started???  :lol:

I try to sign into the website and it keeps re-directing me to the quick-guide  :confused:


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: JasonL220 on November 18, 2011, 11:07:44 PM UTC
Ummm, your trying to log into members.iracing.com yes? Did you get a confirmation email that your account has been activated? What quick start guide is this, link?

Also the site may seem a bit confusing for a few days but it does make sense quite soon.  :)


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Frank on November 18, 2011, 11:26:40 PM UTC
not really a fan of renting a game. how about that new C.A.R.S? has had good reviews so far.


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: JasonL220 on November 18, 2011, 11:30:48 PM UTC
Not tried it myself yet, so can't pass any judgement on it.


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Monty on November 19, 2011, 12:09:16 AM UTC
Never mind the problem Jason, it was IE9 doing what it does best.... cocking it up!   It was the quick guide thing you get before going into the users part - went onto iRacing with Firefox, all good :)

First impressions...... what a change!  Oo      Bigggggggg difference to LFS, rFactor etc!

Think I'm going to need help with control configs though, everything I do isn't working - overly sensitive!   Slightest turn and it is able to turn a hairpin :|        The steering graphic is also annoying how it only turns to 90 Degrees - bloody confusing!          Any sollutions to sort these problems out?   (I love being a noob again  :P)

@Frank:   I was reading the reviews for C.A.R.S, seems promising!  Anyone had a chance to try it yet?


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Frank on November 19, 2011, 06:24:57 AM UTC
well, i tried to download demo/dev version but when i try play it my computer almost goes into meltdown!
So far, its a game for iRacers, more money than sense :D


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Teq on November 19, 2011, 09:46:34 AM UTC
@Monty, first of all set your logitech profiler to default and then in iracing recalibrate everything the way it asks you to. Once you do so you will understand how the calibration works.

I have everything default in Logitech profiler with a couple of tweaks (107% power and such). 200 degrees steering angle works for me the best cause I don't want to turn 900 degrees when i lose the back of the car :D

I read a lot about 350/400 degrees steering, haven't tried it yet.


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: slaWter on November 19, 2011, 09:47:41 AM UTC
Here is our thread about CARS: http://www.sonicrealmsracing.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3417.msg59456#new (http://www.sonicrealmsracing.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3417.msg59456#new)

Haven't tried any of the newer builds - it seems too SHIFTy for me. I'll give it another go in a few months.


Monty, iRacing has the best and easiest controller setup ever made for any racing title. You can setup your wheel and pedal set in 2min with proper calibration compared to other games where you need 2h and it's still not properly working. If you can't use that, than I can't help you.


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Frank on November 19, 2011, 12:12:45 PM UTC
thanks slawter,

another sim, Game Stock Car: http://www.game-stockcar.com.br/Home.aspx (http://www.game-stockcar.com.br/Home.aspx) (click english option)

Heard alot of good reviews about it and way it handles is good, once i save some monies im going to test it out.

Also check their formula option out


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Monty on November 20, 2011, 04:32:18 PM UTC
For now... iRacing will have my full attention so I can see what it's about.

Initial impressions so far.... driving standards is very divided, they are either very good - or disgusting behavior i.e. ignoring blue flags, weaving around the straights to ensure they don't lose a place etc... making LFS look not too bad..... of course in LFS I'd just stick my car along the inside, if they turned in on me... tough - however this standard points thing really affects your rating so collisions drop it :(

I will have a nose at other sims later once more reviews have come through for them!  :)


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Aragorth on August 03, 2017, 06:01:08 PM UTC
Raceroom Experience?
http://game.raceroom.com/ (http://game.raceroom.com/)


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Neil on August 19, 2017, 11:24:39 AM UTC
Haven't tried "R3E" as it's apparently called, have you?
In the last year or so I've tried Project Cars (pretty crap IMO) and Assetto Corsa (pretty good; some flaws but overall good).
I have yet to find a sim that gets as many things right as LFS - there are lots of irritations in AC for example, like no way to change most of the options while on track.
But I guess I'll have to accept the flaws to have a sim community with actual racers in it ;)


Title: Re: Best Race Simulators!
Post by: Gerdoner on August 24, 2017, 06:58:10 PM UTC
In theory, I'd say rFactor 2. Good physics with a good tyre model and it's supposed to have (one of) the best ffb out there. Development got taken over by another studio one year ago, and it looks like we won't just get a random car here and there that nobody really cares about anymore. With the update to DX11, the graphics were updated from "sometimes meh, sometimes ugly" to "sometimes meh, sometimes good". As I said, the FFB is supposed to be pretty good, unfortunately I have major problems getting it to feel right. For me it's either nonexistent or trying to rip my wheel from the desk. Can't drive like this despite spending hours on finetuning the settings. A lot of ppl who have my wheel (T300) don't complain, so I am not really sure if it's my wheel or rF2 that's causing the problems. If you have a T300 or 500 and would share your wheel settings, I'd love to test them :D

ATM I am looking into R3E, but haven't purchased any content yet. Bought Assetto Corsa on the steam sale, but only did a handful of laps. Liked nkpro better, despite being bugridden :D

Anyways, as long as I can't fix my FFB problems, I am doing my (limited) racing in Automobilista. Trusted (read: old) rF1 engine, but a lot of polished content. Have uploaded most of my races to youtube, mostly for archival reasons. Take a look if you want to (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp5pCY1e32G5tKIe-UbFxlA).

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roBqH1eWKVo#)
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXMBTCvgVFY#)

Btw: Hi all :D :)